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BERMAN: “So you say that you are not with it on the impeachment vote. You are not pushing your members on this. What do you mean exactly, and why?”

CLYBURN: “Well, I mean simply that this is a vote of conscience. I do believe that when it comes to something as divisive as impeachment, we have to leave members up to their own consciences, their own constituents and what they think is in the best interest of their love for country. And so I think it would be a bit unseemly for us to go out, whipping up a vote on something like this. This is too serious. This is too much about preserving this great republic, and I think we ought to leave it up to each member to decide how he or she would like to vote.”

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BERMAN: “So you’re not whipping, but I do imagine to an extent you are counting. I know of at least two Democratic members who are at least a no or unlikely to vote yes on impeachment. How many Democrats do you expect to lose on the impeachment vote?”

CLYBURN: “Well, we do expect to lose some, and that’s why I say it is a conscience vote. And it’s with their constituents. We have a very diverse caucus. I share six counties with a Democrat in South Carolina. I see it on part of those counties that it is much different from the part that Cunningham has, and we may be voting differently. I have no idea. He is probably talking to his constituents. He knows where they would like to see him stand on this question, and I suspect that’s the way he would vote. I’m not going to urge him to vote the way I’m going to vote. I think I’ve heard enough. I’ve seen enough. And I believe that this president — if we cannot vote to impeach with what we had in testimonies last week and what we’ve seen in news reports this week, then we ought to just modify the Constitution and get rid of impeachment altogether.”