Ted Cruz to McCabe: If Gen. Flynn Violated the Logan Act, Has Biden Already Done the Same?


Ted Cruz engaged in a heated exchange with Andrew McCabe about Gen. Flynn and the Logan Act, asking if Joe Biden had already violated it.


Klobuchar: “All right. Thank you, Mr. McCabe. Thank you very much.”

GRAHAM: “Senator Cruz.”

CRUZ: “Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. McCabe, welcome. I’d like to start by discussing the Flynn investigation. As you know, the FBI team investigating General Flynn prepared a memo dated January 4th, 2017 to close the investigation into Flynn as basis to continue. The FBI had investigated and failed to find any derogatory information about General Flynn and determined he was no longer a viable candidate for investigation. But then, according to Peter struck, the seventh floor, the top brass at the FBI intervened to keep the investigation open. Were you the one who made the decision to keep the investigation open?”

McCabe: “I don’t remember making that decision but I certainly supported keeping the case open. I don’t remember being the person that made that phone call, but I think that it was the right move to continue investigating once we had uncovered the information we found.”

CRUZ: “So despite the fact that the career investigators concluded there was no basis and no derogatory information and recommended closing it, you made the decision or at least you agreed with the decision to keep the investigation open. On what basis?”

McCabe: “Well, I don’t know that — I don’t recall that the investigators determined there was no basis to continue. My recollection from the conversations we were having about the Flynn case —“

CRUZ: “The memo is a memo to close the investigation because it could not find any, quote, derogatory information about Flynn and he was, quote, no longer a viable candidate for investigation. That’s not ambiguous, is it?”

McCabe: “That’s not the same as what you said before. I, of course, don’t have that memo in front of me. But our feeling at that time was that we had found very little, if any, incriminating evidence about General Flynn until, of course, we found potentially very incriminating evidence about him.”

CRUZ: “Are you referring to the Logan Act theory?”

McCabe: “No, sir. I’m referring to the fact that we uncovered that General Flynn was having the sort of direct contact with the government of Russia that we were looking for in all of the first four cases of cross fire hurricane.”

CRUZ: “Did you support using the Logan Act as a basis to go after General Flynn?”

McCabe: “The Logan Act was not used as a basis to go after General Flynn. We opened the case —“

CRUZ: “You’re aware of the White House meeting where the notes show that Vice President Biden at the time directly suggested using the Logan act to go after General Flynn.”

McCabe: “I’m not aware of that.”

CRUZ: “Those are notes from your colleagues.”

GRAHAM: “I don’t mean to interrupt, but I do —“

McCabe: “Senator, I can say what the — the reasons I agreed with and approved opening the case. That was because we thought that General Flynn might be having inappropriate contacts with Russia. That’s why we opened the case.”

CRUZ: “Inappropriate, so the only basis — this is a decorated three-star General. The only basis put forward for what I think was a bogus political persecution and prosecution was an alleged violation of the Logan act which has never been used to prosecute anybody in the history of the department of justice, true?”

McCabe: “No. I don’t believe that’s true. I think —“

CRUZ: “Name one person that’s ever been prosecuted under the Logan Act.”

McCabe: “No, I was referring to why we opened the case against General Flynn. I’m not aware of prosecutions of the Logan Act.”

GRAHAM: “For those who are listening, we’re talking about a conversation between General Flynn and the Russian ambassador after the election while he’s the national security adviser in waiting. Is that correct, Senator Cruz?”

CRUZ: “We are. He’s the incoming national security adviser. And Mr. McCabe, yesterday on MSNBC, Ben Rhodes the former deputy national security adviser to President Obama said that foreign leaders are already having considerations with Joe Biden, quote, ‘talking about the agenda they’re going to pursue January 20th.’ Mr. McCabe, based on that testimony, do you believe Joe Biden is violating the Logan Act?”

McCabe: “I’m not aware of Ben Rhodes’ statements or —“

CRUZ: “Take it on faith he said what I read. Assuming that quote is accurate, it’s a verbatim quote, is that a violation of the Logan Act under any plausible theory.”

McCabe: “I’m not prepared to take your statement on faith. And I am also not prepared to conduct legal analysis —“

CRUZ: “All right. You’re a lawyer. Have you ever answered hypothetical in court? If it is correct that I’m accurately quoting something the Department of Justice frequently did wrong in this investigation — if that is what Ben Rhodes said, if Joe Biden is talking with foreign leaders right now, does it violate the Logan Act? Yes or no?”

McCabe: “I’m not go opine on a hypothetical question about what the Biden campaign —“

CRUZ: “OK. He is talking with foreign leaders and it doesn’t violate the Logan Act because the Logan Act is unconstitutional, which is why it’s never been used to prosecute anyone. You authorized using it to go after General Flynn as part of a political persecution. I can give you the answer, hell no Joe Biden is not violating the Logan Act. The reason you won’t say it, is because that was your flimsy political basis to go after a decorated war hero because you disagreed politically with President Trump.”

McCabe: “Sir, none of that is correct.”

CRUZ: “Which part? Pick — pick any aspect.”

McCabe: “We didn’t investigate General Flynn because we were concerned that he might violate the Logan Act. We were concerned that General Flynn —“

CRUZ: “It is your testimony the Logan act was not a predicate for the FBI and DoJ investigation of General Flynn. Really?”

McCabe: “There were no discussions of the Logan act —“

CRUZ: “There were no discussions of the Logan act at the FBI, that is your testimony under penalty of perjury. And I warn you, there is abundance evidence there were.”

McCabe: “If you’re not going to let me finish my answer I’m not going to be able to accurately answer your question.”

CRUZ: “What is your testimony? Is your testimony — you just said there was no discussion of the Logan act. Does that remain your testimony?”

McCabe: “No, senator that’s where you cut off my testimony.”

CRUZ: “Please continue.”

McCabe: “I would like to finish my answer.”

CRUZ: “Please continue.”

McCabe: “Thank you. Thank you. When we initiated the case against General Flynn, it was not initiated for or as a result of any discussion —“

CRUZ: “Mr. McCabe you’re being nonresponsive to the question. I didn’t ask about the initiation. The Logan Act was a late pretext that was adopted after you investigated him and couldn’t find anything in the career investigator’s recommended closing it. My time is expiring. The chairman took a little bit of my time so I’m going to take a little bit of it back.”

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